Scuderia Ferrari (27.10.2015 - 09.03.2017)

[mysnghome]

Тут еще Турини все по полочкам разложил:

В Ferrari все счастливы, однако... Чемпионом мира станет темнокожий парень.

[Lonesome]

5 минут назад, mysnghome сказал:

Тут еще Турини все по полочкам разложил:

В Ferrari все счастливы, однако... Чемпионом мира станет темнокожий парень.

 

А тут не нужно быть Турини, чтоб понять, что Эль Негро имеет больше всего шансов на Титул. 

[DevDM]

1 минуту назад, Lonesome сказал:

 

А тут не нужно быть Турини, чтоб понять, что Эль Негро имеет больше всего шансов на Титул. 

Согласен. Чтоб растерять такое преимущество, что есть у Мерса, нужно очень постараться.

[Lawgiver]

1 час назад, Lonesome сказал:

 

Что бы догнать Мерседес, надо провести радикальную смену регламента, при чем в первую очередь регламента на двигатели. 

Несколько лет стабильного регламента и отсутствие ограничений на доработки тоже может помочь.

[прибалт]

25 минут назад, Lonesome сказал:

 

А тут не нужно быть Турини, чтоб понять, что Эль Негро имеет больше всего шансов на Титул. 

 

Скажем, перед Китаем-2007 у него шансов на титул было больше чем сейчас. И ничего, он смог. Да и перед стартом прошлого сезона он считался фаворитом. Вообщем, я в его талант верю.

[AVI]

9 minutes ago, AM_MozG said:

Несколько лет стабильного регламента и отсутствие ограничений на доработки тоже может помочь.

 

 

При этом мерс будет сидеть и не дорабатывать двигатель...) Помочь тут может скорее, либо качественная перетряска любой из команд. Или новые радикальные конструкторские идеи, серые зоны и прочее. Но пока все регламентировано до миллиметра, они все в зародышах. 

 

1 hour ago, Lonesome said:

 

Что бы догнать Мерседес, надо провести радикальную смену регламента, при чем в первую очередь регламента на двигатели. 

 

Ничего не изменит. У Мерса есть вся моторная линейка от 4-х цилиндров до12-ти, есть наработки во всех областях машиностроения. Что это изменит? Новый 4-х цилиндровый аппарат с пятью турбинами реально поможет Феррам бороться с Меренами

 

Поможет только сокращение пунктов, касательно ограничений на строительство болидов, в этом случае шансы серьезно возрастут.

[gorynich]

12 часов назад, Lonesome сказал:

Лука Ди подкинул огоньку: 

 

 

хорошо ,что маркиз тоже не будущее Феррари

[Vt12]

10 минут назад, AVI сказал:

При этом мерс будет сидеть и не дорабатывать двигатель...)

Бесконечно?

[Vt12]

[Lonesome]

12 минут назад, AVI сказал:

У Мерса есть вся моторная линейка от 4-х цилиндров до12-ти, есть наработки во всех областях машиностроения. Что это изменит? Новый 4-х цилиндровый аппарат с пятью турбинами реально поможет Феррам бороться с Меренами

 

И что с того? Новый двигатель - новая архитектура, новые параметры и возможности ошибиться у всех. Главное - это не брать тот вариант, который бы очень устраивал Мерседес. 

[Vt12]

Помните про залипуху, что Мерс масло подливает? Народ аж цвет нагара начал сравнивать.

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23688&start=765

[Stargazer]

16 minutes ago, Vt12 said:

Помните про залипуху, что Мерс масло подливает? Народ аж цвет нагара начал сравнивать.

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23688&start=765

 

 

Честно говоря это пока наилучшее объяснение их квалорежима.

[Lawgiver]

1 час назад, AVI сказал:

Ничего не изменит. У Мерса есть вся моторная линейка от 4-х цилиндров до12-ти, есть наработки во всех областях машиностроения. Что это изменит? Новый 4-х цилиндровый аппарат с пятью турбинами реально поможет Феррам бороться с Меренами

Переход на атмосферные V12 нам бы очень помог..

[AVI]

51 minutes ago, Lonesome said:

 

И что с того? Новый двигатель - новая архитектура, новые параметры и возможности ошибиться у всех. Главное - это не брать тот вариант, который бы очень устраивал Мерседес. 

 

Мы уже увидели это в сезоне 14-го года и наблюдаем до сих пор. 

Когда у одних был опыт только с KERS, а у другого линейка гибридов. Нужен аналог регламента WEC, тогда еще есть шанс.

 

[ZiLOG]

59 минут назад, Lonesome сказал:

 

И что с того? Новый двигатель - новая архитектура, новые параметры и возможности ошибиться у всех. Главное - это не брать тот вариант, который бы очень устраивал Мерседес. 

Я бы убрал гибрид, а вместо него ввёл компрессор. Т.е. турбина+компрессор. Ушло бы много гемора с батареями, электроникой, накопительными тормозами, итд. При этом осталась бы экономичность, мощность, и челендж для конструкторов двигателей.

Те двигатели что сейчас, предельно сложные, думаешь Коуэл не справиться с более простой конструкцией? Наивно так полагать.

[MSForever]

Хочу батл между Фетом и Кими. За первое место. Надоел ванильный зефир)))

[Runa]

4 минуты назад, MSForever сказал:

Хочу батл между Фетом и Кими. За первое место. Надоел ванильный зефир)))

Атмосфера испортится 

[ФиМиКи]

2 часа назад, mysnghome сказал:

Тут еще Турини все по полочкам разложил:

В Ferrari все счастливы, однако... Чемпионом мира станет темнокожий парень.

сколько лет являюсь болельщиком Кимана, но только что узнал, что он чернокожий....мож мутация какая - чернокожий альбинос

[gorynich]

Педро хвалит Мерседес

"Полагаю, в Алонсо начинает закипать злость. Фернандо приходится бороться с машиной, она ведет себя более нервно, чем можно было ожидать. Я видел, что Фернандо приходится активнее работать рулем, чем при оптимальном пилотаже. В первом повороте болид вел себя нестабильно, а в пятом Алонсо часто блокировал колеса.Никому другому пока не приходится атаковать так сильно, как Фернандо. Я сам видел, как в нескольких случаях ему приходилось бороться с избыточной поворачиваемостью. Я действительно не ожидал, что на новых широких шинах болид «Макларена» будет вести себя настолько нервно.Что касается остальных, то болид «Феррари» показался мне очень проворным, он здорово смотрится на трассе. Конечно, я не знаю, сколько топлива было залито в бак болида, и насколько легким он был, но на трассе болид «Феррари» смотрится впечатляюще.В связке первого и второго поворотов особенно выделяется «Мерседес». Ни одна другая машина не проходит этот участок на той скорости, что и «Мерседес». У них много прижимной силы, а шины «Пирелли», как кажется, работают на болиде «Мерседеса» жестче, чем на других машинах."..

https://www.sports.ru/automoto/1048972022.html

[Cavallino]

Контрольный выстрел от Гари)

 

1 Ferrari 1m19.202s
2 Mercedes 1m19.555s
3 Renault 1m20.146s
4 Red Bull 1m20.353s
5 Williams 1m20.876s
6 Sauber 1m21.374s
7 Haas 1m21.818s
8 Force India 1m22.059s
9 Toro Rosso 1m22.156s
10 McLaren 1m22.448s

[Alex1988]

2 минуты назад, Cavallino сказал:

Контрольный выстрел от Гари)

 

1 Ferrari 1m19.202s
2 Mercedes 1m19.555s
...

Идеальный круг по лучшим секторам? Или другое?

[NewHomark]

16 минут назад, Alex1988 сказал:

Идеальный круг по лучшим секторам? Или другое?

 

Похоже на то. У Вильямса правда на фоне их лучших времен "идеальный круг" особенно впечатляет. Ну а дно МакЛарена похоже вызывает грусть уже у всех болельщиков вне зависимости от того за кого они болеют...

[Cavallino]

26 минут назад, Alex1988 сказал:

Идеальный круг по лучшим секторам? Или другое?

нет. он делает поправку на резину (от медиума до ультра 0,6-0,4-0,2), кол-во кругов в серии (0,05 на круг) плюс прикидывает изменение самой трассы.

(0.2). 

So how do you draw any conclusions from the lap times? While I don't quite have the same analytical power as all of the teams, there are things you can do to eliminate a little of the fog from the numbers and see things slightly clearer. These are very much tentative conclusions, but they give us some idea of what to expect in the second test and beyond.

The team ranking below is based on taking the fastest single lap set during the four days of running and then normalising it for tyre compound using steps of 0.6s from medium to soft, 0.4s from soft to super-soft and 0.2s from super-soft to ultra-soft.

The fuel load is also accounted for, with 0.05s allowed per completed lap on the run on which the time was set. I've also made a small allowance of 0.2s per day for track evolution, which isn't precise but, like the other adjustments, it helps to narrow the window of uncertainty.

[mysnghome]

Только что, Cavallino сказал:

нет. он делает поправку на резину (от медиума до ультра 0,6-0,4-0,2), кол-во кругов в серии (0,05 на круг) плюс прикидывает изменение самой трассы.

(0.2). 

А где это посмотреть можно?

[Cavallino]

4 минуты назад, mysnghome сказал:

А где это посмотреть можно?

http://www.autosport.com/premium/feature/7420/ranking-the-2017-formula-1-cars-so-far

 

Ranking the 2017 Formula 1 cars so far

Half of Formula 1's 2017 pre-season testing is complete. Who starred in the opening bout, and who has plenty of work to do?
By Gary Anderson Published on Friday March 3rd 2017

Judging car performance based on testing can be dangerous, given the number of variables in play. The different fuel loads, tyre compounds and run programmes means even to the trained eye it's only possible to pick some pointers towards where things really stand.

But that doesn't mean you learn nothing. Ferrari is clearly impressive and McLaren-Honda is clearly struggling yet again. By looking at the lap times, spending time watching the cars trackside and tuning in to paddock chatter, you can get a feel of where things stand.

Talking of watching trackside, it surprises me that this is something team personnel don't do more often. For example, I was watching at Turn 10 on Wednesday and on every lap Romain Grosjean was struggling with the rear on turn-in, and probably complaining about it to the Haas team. If someone had been watching they could have told him he was braking about two car lengths later than anyone else. Things like that matter.

So how do you draw any conclusions from the lap times? While I don't quite have the same analytical power as all of the teams, there are things you can do to eliminate a little of the fog from the numbers and see things slightly clearer. These are very much tentative conclusions, but they give us some idea of what to expect in the second test and beyond.

The team ranking below is based on taking the fastest single lap set during the four days of running and then normalising it for tyre compound using steps of 0.6s from medium to soft, 0.4s from soft to super-soft and 0.2s from super-soft to ultra-soft.

The fuel load is also accounted for, with 0.05s allowed per completed lap on the run on which the time was set. I've also made a small allowance of 0.2s per day for track evolution, which isn't precise but, like the other adjustments, it helps to narrow the window of uncertainty.

ADJUSTED LAP TIMES
1 Ferrari 1m19.202s
2 Mercedes 1m19.555s
3 Renault 1m20.146s
4 Red Bull 1m20.353s
5 Williams 1m20.876s
6 Sauber 1m21.374s
7 Haas 1m21.818s
8 Force India 1m22.059s
9 Toro Rosso 1m22.156s
10 McLaren 1m22.448s

You can read the times however you want, and I'm not saying Ferrari is necessarily 0.353s faster than Mercedes. But using these 'fudge factors' to balance things up, I'm pretty sure that the two of them are running tit for tat at the moment. And with the fact that Valtteri Bottas didn't seem to get the expected improvement in the final sector of his fastest lap using ultra-soft rubber, you could certainly argue there was a bit more to come there.

To bring into play observations of how the car looked on track and seemed to respond to the different conditions and tyre compounds, now we can look at each team in more detail.



1 FERRARI

On track the Ferrari looks like the most consistently stable car of the whole lot, whatever tyre it's on. So much so that, other than by looking at the colouring on the sidewall, I couldn't tell the difference between compounds.

The car looks very precise, is able to drive a consistent line and has a good balance. I barely saw a Ferrari have a moment, save for when Sebastian Vettel once ran wide at Turn 1.

Other teams are suggesting Ferrari is running a bit light; they may know something we don't, but from trackside it doesn't look too light and if there is a difference compared to Mercedes, it's not too much.

So I suspect any fuel-load difference is minimal. If not, and Ferrari is running light, then the team's being pretty stupid because the season is coming up soon and it's better to work on your own problems and improve rather than camouflaging them.

What we can be sure of is that Ferrari, relative to the rest, has taken a step forward from last year.



2 MERCEDES

The Mercedes often looks great on track on the soft tyre. But it didn't look so good on the medium rubber during race runs, and I wonder if there's something there that isn't quite right.

Mercedes is certainly looking good, but I suspect there's perhaps a little inherent understeer in this car. Normally, going from the soft to the medium tyre you'd expect that to reduce, because you get a little less rear grip, but it wasn't doing that. That doesn't bode so well for when Mercedes is running on the harder tyre compounds.

But it's true that Bottas could have gone a little quicker on his ultra-soft run, and Lewis Hamilton didn't have the chance to put in that kind of lap.

Don't get me wrong, the Mercedes still looked like a very good car, but it was strange to see how much the drivers had to be cautious into Turn 3 to be able to get the nose in and then delayed getting on the throttle.



3 RENAULT

Renault has without doubt made progress since last year - there was a lot of progress to be made. Out of the bunch of cars behind the big-three teams, the Renault looks as good as any of them.

In Nico Hulkenberg they have a driver of good experience. The team has had a bit of a resurrection, with some decent people there, and on track it looks reasonable.

It doesn't have the grip of the Ferrari or the Mercedes, or even the Red Bull, because in the Turn 3 right-hander you can see it using a lot more road. The Renault can carry the speed in, but doesn't have the grip to keep it tucked in. That's usually a good indication that the grip level is just not there.

It's certainly a solid car, but none of it is anything like as exotic as the top teams. So there's room for optimisation. The fundamentals are there and with a bit of confidence and good development work, Renault will see a reward. It's not going to be in the top three, but it could be strong in the next group.



4 RED BULL

The team has said that it's gone for a fairly simple package, whereas Ferrari and Mercedes haven't. Ferrari has worked hard on the sidepod/bargeboard area and Mercedes the diffuser area - obviously both have worked on all areas, but here in particular.

I don't think Red Bull is going to get away with a simple package, and I don't believe that's really the case - there will be more on the car come the start of the season. So it will be there or thereabouts.

But although we didn't see the most from this car in Spain, Red Bull probably does need to find that extra two or three tenths to be at the front, and I'm sure that's coming. Red Bull is very good at showing its true form when it needs to.

On a few occasions coming out of Turn 2 the rear was getting a bit lively. The question I'd ask is, given that the sound of the engine is not up there with the Mercedes and the Ferrari (and the suspicion is it's detuned), what happens when it's at full power? That probably is just about a small balance change.



5 WILLIAMS

Williams has had a torrid time. The first day with Felipe Massa was OK. Given there was a big step in performance from the morning to the afternoon, perhaps the team turned the right or took some fuel out. But after the first day, we didn't see the car with an experienced driver in it.

When Lance Stroll was in the car he was still experimenting. He doesn't leave the car alone - I describe it as having too tight a grip on the steering wheel, trying to feel everything the car's doing. He needs to let the car do the work. Like riding a horse, don't grip the reins too tight, just give it guidance.

He had two visits to the gravel at Turn 3 and crashed there too, which you accept as par for the course because he's inexperienced. But that's enough, now the line must be drawn - although it should be added that it's possible there was something in the car that was making it difficult, maybe in the set-up or the way the ERS is working.

The other crash you can just put down to getting on the exit kerb coming out of Turn 5. If you get wide and keep your foot in, something's going to go wrong and he was probably just being too brave.

Don't write him off; plenty of young drivers have had difficult days like the two Stroll had. He's a good driver and he will get there.

The car, from what we saw, looks to be about where it should be. Fourth place back is a tight bunch, and Williams should head that pack. But it could be difficult with only one experienced driver.



6 SAUBER

This team is definitely out of place in this order, and I suspect the lap time was probably done on the sniff of an oily rag.

On track it doesn't look like it has the grip level to be sixth, as the car runs wider earlier than most. I'm not saying it's bad, and it seems to have no vices, but it can't carry the corner speed with the driver able to keep the throttle in. There will be a reason for that.

Sauber is a small team trying to rebuild, and it has a year-old Ferrari engine. I've no doubt its true position is further back, if not at the back, but for now I'm sticking to the ranking creating by the analysis of the times.



7 HAAS

The Haas appears to be pretty good, perhaps better than its pace suggests. This is its second year, but it now looks like an established team able to turn up and log good laps, getting through all the work.

The team's professionalism is clear. Both drivers got a similar opportunity, and Haas looks like it could be well up there in the midfield battle for fourth.

The interesting question, from my point of view, is the similarities with the Ferrari. The sidepod does have some significant differences, but the treatment of the bargeboards and turning vanes is very similar.

Haas also made good progress during the test and seemed to get better as it racked up the miles.



8 FORCE INDIA

This was a fairly low-profile test for Force India. It did waste time on day one with an exhaust-system problem, and it could definitely have used the third day better by not having development driver Alfonso Celis Jr in the car.

It's alright having the extra driver in on day one to drive around and see that everything works, but you should have the proper drivers - who'll bring in the points - in the car later on. After all, their ability will bring more performance than Celis's chequebook.

The car itself looks pretty decent. At first I didn't like the step in the nose-to-chassis interface, but as a performance concept it looks fine. On track the only time I saw it in detail was with Celis at the wheel, so was the variety of lines down to the car or the driver? I think the latter.

The rest of the time it looked like a good, tidy car with decent balance. But I'd like to see a little more pace. Like I always say, it's hard to hold a good car back.

It's OK, certainly, but more is needed in the next test.



9 TORO ROSSO

Everyone has been keeping themselves to themselves; I'm told the team has a lot of new stuff coming for the next test, and used the first four days to log miles and prove it has a reliable car that reacts to set-up changes.

But I've also seen technical director James Key with a furrowed brow a few times. I've been a technical director with one of these myself, so I know what can be the cause. I suspect there are a few problems.

Looking at the car on track, you would say it looked neat and tidy on day one. But it never built from there. Like Force India, the team needs to do more.



10 McLAREN

Oh dear. There have obviously been problems with Honda - there was that strange oil-tank problem, and power units that gave up the ghost. So McLaren has lost a lot of track time.

The engine problems are well documented, and there's work to be done there. But if anyone bothered to look at the car on track, they'd see it's by no means as good as quite a few of the others - and not just the quick ones.


Watching Fernando Alonso on day three - albeit with the caveat that you never really know if you're watching 'frustrated Fernando' or one who is properly trying - was interesting.

Through Turns 1, 2 and 3 is quite demanding. If you get through there well, you can be confident the car is under you for the rest of the lap. I doubt Alonso ever felt that. He couldn't get the power on between Turns 2 and 3, and had to be very careful on turn-in. Then he had to be careful applying the throttle.

So this is not just a very good chassis being let down by the engine - it's about the whole package. Both McLaren and Honda have some serious work to do.